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2017 Proposed Rule Changes for Member Comment.

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  • #16
    I like this rules process, it gets a lot of people involved. My thoughts are below, but keep in mind I play in Mod so the Stock/Prepared rules don't normally apply to me:
    1. Clarify that non-U.S. vehicles are “eligible vehicles”. -- Could be difficult for a competitor to prove stock legality with foreign language documentation. No objection for regional events, but I don't think they're a good fit for Stock at National events.
    2. Prohibit non-OEM roll cages/roll bars in Stock. -- In 2014 Leon's Rabbit had one of the harshest rollovers I've seen at a RallyCross event, and the roof of the car wasn't touching the cage afterward. I don't think roll bars/cages are necessary at RallyCross speeds, but I don't think the rules should discourage or ban them. Keep the rule as written, and allow minimum mods to install the roll bar/cage.
    3. Drop Snell 2000 helmets from eligibility and allow ECE (European standard) helmets to be consistent with Solo helmet rules. -- Agree
    4. Add guidance on how to address cracked/broken windshields. -- If the crack obscures vision to the point Ace Ventura has to hang out the window to see, it's a safety issue. Otherwise, leave it alone. At some point I'll be able to bring my own car at a National event, and my drive to just about anywhere in the central US will be around 3500 miles each way. It would really suck to get a minor crack somewhere along the way, that has no affect on visibility in my rubber-gasketed windshield, and then be denied entry because a no-crack rule is made for a few cars that might use the windshield as structure.
    5. Allow tires with Canadian DOT/TIN to be used on Canada-registered vehicles. -- At regional events, sure. Stick with US DOT for Stock at National events. I don't know enough about CanadianDOT tire markings, but maybe add a provision where the entrant must prove the Canadian tire is completely equivalent to US DOT but stamped differently? The key is to avoid a Canadian-only tire that is faster than all US tires (I don't know whether that would even exist), and would give an advantage that's not available to all competitors.
    6. Add examples of allowable and non-allowable protective equipment. -- No comment, no objection.
    7. Allow removal of rear seats and interior components to accommodate roll cage/bar installation in Stock. -- I like the rule as written, where you remove the minimum amount necessary to install the bar/cage. Cars ran roll cages in Showroom Stock for a long time with nearly full interiors, it can be done. That said, removal of the rear seat is offset by the weight of the cage, so probably not a big deal performance-wise. Removal of interior components is too vague, and opens a can of worms that starts to stray too far from Stock or even Prepared. If you want to gut the car for a cage, jump to Mod.
    8. Allow +/- 1” wheel diameter variance in Stock OR allow any size wheel in Stock. -- I like the idea of stock width, +/-10mm offset, and +/-1" for diameter.
    9. Allow snorkels and body modification for routing intake tubes for mid/rear-engine cars in Prepared. -- I don't play in Prepared, so I don't object. But, knowing there's probably no advantage for front engine cars either, why not open it up to all?
    10. Allow AWD/4WD to substitute any/all differentials with limited slip/locking units in Prepared. -- Yes. It can get expensive, but it could be easier to throw 3 diffs at a car rather than experimenting to see which ONE works best.
    11. Allow addition of oil catch tanks in Prepared. -- I support this
    12. Allow modification of fenders and doors to accommodate larger wheels/tires in Modified.-- YES!
    13. Allow removal of rear window in convertible hardtops OR allow removal of rear window in hardtop if vehicle is equipped with a roll cage in Modified.-- I like it, but only because this could be a good opportunity for rules-creep in the future, and a step towards allowing aftermarket tops on convertibles with full cages. But, if the manufacturers say the window is part of the top for strength, I suppose it should stay.
    14. Allow windshield to be replaced with wire mesh or bracing if vehicle is equipped with roll cage in Modified. -- No objection, but without a windshield, a face shield or goggles should be worn too.
    15. Allow any aerodynamic device in Modified. -- YES! We already have several cars running aftermarket aero, and have for years. There isn't much aero forces at typical RallyCross speeds, so the rules should let them run legally.
    16. Allow exhaust to exit to the side of the vehicle in front of the driver in Modified. -- No objection.
    17. Add new class for AWD/4WD vehicles with OEM active differentials. -- Do we call this new class Warren Mod or Max Mod? No. I'd much rather see an unlimited class that allows tube frames, homebuilts, buggies, and other fun stuff that meets safety rules.
    18. Eliminate parade laps and only allow course walks. -- The proposed change as written in the PDF doesn't eliminate the parade lap, it just eliminates the option for a person who may not be able to walk to drive the course prior to the official parade lap. Keep the option open for those who can't walk. I'm indifferent on a parade lap. It's helpful, but not necessary.
    19. Change maximum speed guideline from “not normally exceed 50 mph” back to 60 mph -- YES
    Kent Hamilton
    RXB Chairman

    That guy from Alaska

    Comment


    • #17
      1. Clarify that non-U.S. vehicles are “eligible vehicles”. -- Non-us vehicles should be legal in mod but not in any other class. This includes canadians participants using a vehicle that doesn't have a direct US equivalent. There are so many rules intermingled in the rules for stock/prepared about visual option packages and performance packages, that the whole package must be installed. This either means that a non-us vehicle must convert all items over to a US model of the same year, or it opens it up the other way, that a stock 1996 subaru legacy can engine swap and interior swap to a twin turbo japanese subaru legacy because it is a 'stock non-us vehicle.'
      2. Prohibit non-OEM roll cages/roll bars in Stock. -- I think the weight of a roll cage far outweighs (ha!) any performance gain. If a person wants to feel safer with a cage, then they should be able to do so. Since there are no rules for cages in prepared, this rule inadvertently applies to prepared vehicles as well. Disallowing cages in stock, means only mod cars can run one.
      3. Drop Snell 2000 helmets from eligibility and allow ECE (European standard) helmets to be consistent with Solo helmet rules. -- Agree.
      4. Add guidance on how to address cracked/broken windshields. -- As others have stated, a crack which does not obstruct visibility does not pose a safety risk in my opinion, and it would be far too easy to get a crack in travel to a national event. I don't want to see this as the easy way to protest out a competitor. Not to mention the inherent risk of receiving a crack through rocks being thrown by the car in front of you starting.
      5. Allow tires with Canadian DOT/TIN to be used on Canada-registered vehicles. -- Do not allow. There was already a problem at nats last year with re-skinned tires that had the proper markings but weren't actually legal. I don't think US competitors and staff should need to learn canadian tire codes and the potential crossovers where all of a sudden a canadian rally tire is appearing in stock. I think most people make exceptions to rules at regional events and I think that type of sportsmanship should continue, and if someone shows up from canada to race, that group is adult enough to have them compete in the appropriate class.
      6. Allow removal of rear seats and interior components to accommodate roll cage/bar installation in Stock. -- stolen from above: I like the rule as written, where you remove the minimum amount necessary to install the bar/cage.
      7. Allow +/- 1” wheel diameter variance in Stock OR allow any size wheel in Stock. -- Stock should allow +/-1" in diameter to mimic autocross rules. I feel stock cars play well where they can translate between autocross and rallycross and that is a good thing. Also, its 2016, which means a car made in 2006 is now 10 years old. In the mid 2000's oversized wheels became the norm for manufacturers and not only are tires in these sizes hard to find, but the amount of tire sidewall can be detrimental to keep the wheel round and usable. I would also like to see the allowance of +/-.5 inch in width. Rallycross is not like autocross where you are trying to run the widest possible race slick. In rallycross narrow widths can be good, but it is not the huge deciding factor. opening up the diameter and width really helps racers find wheels for their cars which have oddball sizes 240sx with its 15x6.5" wheels comes to mind. Or mazda RX8 with 17" and 18" diameter wheels with very limited snow tire options.
      8. Allow snorkels and body modification for routing intake tubes for mid/rear-engine cars in Prepared. -- I fully support this rule as a prepared driver with a rear engine vehicle, but I believe the rule should read tighter, like the roll cage rule, that the minimum amount of material should be removed to accommodate the modification. I don't see a reason to forbid front engined vehicles from doing this, as I don't see a huge benefit to these cars. I do see the rule as a whole is in opposition to Prepared vehicles appearing as showroom stock vehicles on the exterior (ie: the rules as written is ground effects, spoilers, and hood scoops must be OEM components) and a snorkel or exterior snorkel is in opposition to this. I would overall like to see prepared allow for a more open visual modification allowance where this would fit in better, but that's another story and another year proposal.
      9. Allow AWD/4WD to substitute any/all differentials with limited slip/locking units in Prepared. -- undecided... I don't agree with the argument that 2wd cars get to replace "all of their differentials" and so all wheel drive vehicles should be able to do the same. I don't think that is a fair comparison/equivalence, as a single differential change can make a significant impact to performance and thats what the rule seems to carry with it. Then gain, it may make cars more competitive with active diff cars like the evo, and I can support that.
      10. Allow addition of oil catch tanks in Prepared. -- No brainer, no performance gain, only an engine protection measure, I support this.
      11. Allow modification of fenders and doors to accommodate larger wheels/tires in Modified.-- Agreed, don't know how this isn't already allowed.
      12. Allow removal of rear window in convertible hardtops OR allow removal of rear window in hardtop if vehicle is equipped with a roll cage in Modified.-- Just tried to open the link to read this rule in its entirety and the link is dead. I would say if the window is replaced with lexan or similar and it is not integral to the structure of the hard top then I support it in mod class only. The thing I've always heard is that roll bars don't make much of a difference in convertibles in rally, that they shovel into the dirt, and that hard tops distribute the load over a greater area resulting in more rollover safety, so if removing the rear window compromises the hard top, then the roll bar may not be enough.
      13. Allow windshield to be replaced with wire mesh or bracing if vehicle is equipped with roll cage in Modified. -- as above, no objection, but without a windshield, a face shield or goggles should be worn too.
      14. Allow any aerodynamic device in Modified. -- I feel like mod is the unlimited class where it states the car must resemble a factory car. Therefore I think aero should be unlimited as the speeds do not allow for the aero to make a difference, and if there's no allowance here for it, then a car with aftermarket appearance parts would have no where to compete.
      15. Allow exhaust to exit to the side of the vehicle in front of the driver in Modified. -- Do not allow. This I think is an unnecessary safety risk for anyone that may be trying to attend to a driver involved in a wreck or rollover, or even drivers walking through grid who may not be aware of an unusual exhaust exit. Also opens up things like hood exit exhaust which can obscure forward vision.
      16. Add new class for AWD/4WD vehicles with OEM active differentials. -- Nope. Plenty of drivers have won against these cars in the past.
      17. Eliminate parade laps and only allow course walks. -- No. Parade laps help knock down vegetation in vegetation heavy regions. Also, it allows for people to see course changes that may have occurred since they were able to walk (ie: second heat drivers). It takes less time to do a parade lap than to have everyone walk to course to see course changes. I do believe that regions should be stricter on the time to get cars out on course. A parade lap is a privaledge, not a right. You must make it to paddock by a set time, and if you don't then you don't get a parade lap.
      18. Change maximum speed guideline from “not normally exceed 50 mph” back to 60 mph -- No objection. The verbage doesn't carry alot of weight with it in comparison to safety stewards and course designers' judgements.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by gsxnut View Post
        Smaller Brake Swap and keep the 114.3 x 5 wheel hubs roughly $2000
        Oh, but I found a junkyardable way to do this without spending $600+ per rear brake rotor... closer to $65, if you pay retail for new ones...

        Makes me want to get a Subaru of my own again!
        '84 RX-7 #9 Mod Rear
        '81 RX-7 #74 Prepared Rear
        '06 S60R #588
        '86 Quantum Syncro #34 Mod AWD

        Comment


        • #19
          1. Clarify that non-U.S. vehicles are “eligible vehicles”.
            Fine, as long as they are legally imported (over 25 years).
          2. Add guidance on how to address cracked/broken windshields.
            Does this need to be a rule? Guidance is fine.
          3. Allow tires with Canadian DOT/TIN to be used on Canada-registered vehicles.
            Should be allowed for all vehicles, not just canada-registered.
          4. Allow removal of rear seats and interior components to accommodate roll cage/bar installation in Stock.
            If a roll cage is added that could be a lot of interior components removed.
          5. Allow +/- 1” wheel diameter variance in Stock OR allow any size wheel in Stock.
            Allow any size wheel in stock if nothing is changed to make them fit OR allow any diameter.
          6. Allow removal of rear window in convertible hardtops OR allow removal of rear window in hardtop if vehicle is equipped with a roll cage in Modified.
            Option 2, but it should be roll cage OR bar.
          7. Allow windshield to be replaced with wire mesh or bracing if vehicle is equipped with roll cage in Modified.
            No
          8. Allow any aerodynamic device in Modified.
            Yes, although I don't know why this needs to be clarified.
          9. Allow exhaust to exit to the side of the vehicle in front of the driver in Modified.
            Yes.
          10. Add new class for AWD/4WD vehicles with OEM active differentials.
            No
          11. Eliminate parade laps and only allow course walks.
            Since the course can change so much over a few runs and course walks are not allowed in between run groups the parade laps should be kept.
          12. Change maximum speed guideline from “not normally exceed 50 mph” back to 60 mph.
            Yes


          Comment


          • #20
            Everyone who participates in RallyCross should take the time to think about not only these proposals, but where our sport could be in a few years. Don't just think about the class you compete in or even the prep level. Rather think about whether something is good for the sport or just the person proposing a rule change.

            1) no
            2) no
            3) yes
            4) common sense, at Hastings one year, a VW rolled and made repairs which allowed it to still compete.
            5) no
            6) yes
            7) no
            8) no, where does this stop? As an example, car with 19" wheels could only go down to 18", not much difference. It only makes sense that the following proposal would be to allow +-2", it's called rules creep for a reason.
            9) yes
            10) yes
            11) yes
            12) yes
            13) no, convertibles are not the same as hardtop vehicles
            14) yes
            15) yes
            16) no
            17) no
            18) no
            19) no, people think 50 mph is slow on dirt. Set up a RallyCross course that can reach that speed and it will make sense why 60 is too fast for RallyCross. Remember, the rule states "does not normally exceed 50 mph" I love to go fast, but there's a time and a place.

            Comment


            • #21
              The RXB just made JDM swaps legal for Stock.

              So if you've swapped your stock vehicle and now it is exactly like the JDM counter part, you could be legal to run in the Stock class.




              3.1 ELIGIBLE VEHICLES
              A RallyCross event is open to any fixed-roof, four-wheeled, mass-produced passenger vehicle (including convertibles with a factory hardtop attached, targa-types with factory panel in place, t‐tops with factory panels in place) that can pass safety inspection. A vehicle that meets the definition above but was not originally sold in the United States (e.g. Canada, Japan/JDM or Europe-only vehicle) is eligible if it meets applicable safety and preparation allowance requirements. If the Event Chairman after consultation with the Event Safety Steward determines at his discretion that a vehicle cannot safely negotiate the course, it may be excluded. The following types of vehicles are currently not eligible to compete: ATVs, UTVs, side-by-sides, Trophy Trucks, Crosskarts, Formula Cross, Legend cars and tube‐frame vehicles.

              PASSED 7-0.
              Charles
              RXB
              RX Rule Committee chairman
              MR 1986 Mazda RX-7
              SA 2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by slowautoxr View Post
                The RXB just made JDM swaps legal for Stock.

                So if you've swapped your stock vehicle and now it is exactly like the JDM counter part, you could be legal to run in the Stock class.




                3.1 ELIGIBLE VEHICLES
                A RallyCross event is open to any fixed-roof, four-wheeled, mass-produced passenger vehicle (including convertibles with a factory hardtop attached, targa-types with factory panel in place, t‐tops with factory panels in place) that can pass safety inspection. A vehicle that meets the definition above but was not originally sold in the United States (e.g. Canada, Japan/JDM or Europe-only vehicle) is eligible if it meets applicable safety and preparation allowance requirements. If the Event Chairman after consultation with the Event Safety Steward determines at his discretion that a vehicle cannot safely negotiate the course, it may be excluded. The following types of vehicles are currently not eligible to compete: ATVs, UTVs, side-by-sides, Trophy Trucks, Crosskarts, Formula Cross, Legend cars and tube‐frame vehicles.

                PASSED 7-0.

                I think the key word here is "EXACTLY" and the owner should be prepared to prove by documentation the car is "EXACTLY" as it was produced and sold in the country it is being claimed to be sold in. So if your thinking about a GC8 STI Swap make sure you get all the parts not just the motor and transmission.
                Mark Macoubrie
                RXB
                Kansas City Region
                2005 STI 41 PA

                Comment


                • #23
                  You'd need to import the whole car. At least, my interpretation of the rules is, the vehicle must match the VIN, the only things that can be installed post-factory besides allowable comfort & convenience items (like port- or dealer-installed A/C) are complete option packages. An STI isn't an option package, it's a different car.

                  I've seen someone enter a Lancia Delta Integrale in SA, nobody complained

                  Realistically speaking, a car like that is going to be very rare/expensive/difficult to repair, so I see this rule as being less exclusionary. I doubt that there are any "ringer" vehicles not already on these shores, or that anybody would, say, spend $50k+ to get a bluetop Cossie to rallycross it. While entirely awesome, it's also extremely impractical.
                  '84 RX-7 #9 Mod Rear
                  '81 RX-7 #74 Prepared Rear
                  '06 S60R #588
                  '86 Quantum Syncro #34 Mod AWD

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    When can we expect the rules to be published?

                    Comment

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