New RallyCross Class - Classic American Muscle (CAM)

[sureshot007]

I am curious - is it the engine requirement? Or something else that I missed that could exclude a stage car?

It's the engine for me. There are plenty of guys out there running a non 4 cylinder engine. It's ok, though, as it's legal to run all logbooked cars in Modified anyway, so we really didn't need another class for us.

[Pete]

Except that a lot of stage cars (including mine) aren't eligible for the class.

I am curious - is it the engine requirement? Or something else that I missed that could exclude a stage car?

[sureshot007]

I thought the whole point of the "Open" class proposal is to give a place for stage rally cars to play where they won't get beat up on by Miatas and Civics.

Except that a lot of stage cars (including mine) aren't eligible for the class.

[sureshot007]

CAM is popular because those guys love the looks of their car more than the performance. That idea would never fly in RX.

Splitting classes by power/weight instead of drive wheels is interesting though. "Light" would be under a size/weight/power, and "Heavy" would be all the rest.

[Pete]

A course that is tight enough to restrict speeds to acceptably safe levels is going to greatly benefit a smaller car. And if the courses get opened up, well, I've driven a 5.0 Miata (maybe 400hp) and it was interesting, Like driving a turbo Miata but a lot more controllable, and a lot more power...

I thought the whole point of the "Open" class proposal is to give a place for stage rally cars to play where they won't get beat up on by Miatas and Civics.

[ojannen]

That is because the Miata is the only decent reardrive car made in the last 25+ years that is small enough to be rallycross-friendly. Automakers aren't making Chevettes and Escorts and such anymore. Even the front drive cars are huge, a new Fit or Fiesta is a dinosaur compared to my GTI.

Should the rules be updated to fit modern sized cars into rallycross? It could be divided by weight, number of seats, or make. It doesn't help locally where we don't have enough cars for 3 RWD classes. Maybe it would give more variety to regional and national events.

Look at C Prepared in autocross. They spend a lot of money to drive slower than lower prepped miatas. Is it a bad thing that they exist?

[Pete]

I
The age of the car doesn't matter, but the solid rear axle does. IRS helps out massively in RallyCross (and most forms of racing). The solid axle is an equalizing factor.

How so?

Drive a 200hp IRS car and drive my 270hp solid axle RX-7 and tell me which one is better at putting power down...

[Pete]

I think the RWD classes have a problem where all the cars are either NB miatas or 25+ years old.

That is because the Miata is the only decent reardrive car made in the last 25+ years that is small enough to be rallycross-friendly. Automakers aren't making Chevettes and Escorts and such anymore. Even the front drive cars are huge, a new Fit or Fiesta is a dinosaur compared to my GTI.

Yes, there's the BR-Z and the Genesis Coupe, but they both are heavy and wide as a bus. I do keep having lingering thoughts about E46 BMWs (which are even heavier), but they pass over time, like most temporary illnesses

[ojannen]

I think the RWD classes have a problem where all the cars are either NB miatas or 25+ years old. The AWD and FWD classes have two competitive groups of cars: older, lightweight, low hp cars and newer, heavyweight, high hp cars. I don't see that divide for RWD. Light weight rules the class and there just isn't anything new that weights under 2500lbs. Except for miatas.

Now that I am thinking about it, I totally forgot about the NC MX-5 with the MS-R package. I am off to craigslist. What is the best way to cheat the seat a little lower so I can fit under the hard top without slouching?

[zblorenc]

I remember the same conversation when EVOs were crushing AWD classes. We can't adjust the class rules simply because there is a car out there that's dominant. Didn't happen in AWD and it won't happen in RWD.

[ojannen]

This feels like the perfect class for a mk2 Ford Escort with 1000lbs of ballast.

In seriousness, why not split the RWD classes by weight. 3000lbs for stock/prepared and maybe 2500 for mod seems like a reasonable starting point. Otherwise, you start with a 500lb disadvantage to the miatas in almost every car.

[JoeyM]

Hmmm.....87 Z28 for sale just down the road from the house. Might have to go check it out. I was actually looking for a camaro or mustang for my 1st RallyX car. All I could find in my area were automatics when I was looking. Ended up with a 95 Impreza instead.

[Mokkan]

But currently if you mention Solo in any sort of rule proposal it will get shot down instantly and refused to get considered.

This is accurate and concerning.

[Quadracerjr]

Iowa region (he also ran at Nationals last year.) There is a 77 Corvette that runs. And if I recall those are irs so you'd be eliminating him out of the class by the solid axle rule. Also a 70s Chevy pickup runs with us also in mod rear. That does surprisingly well.
Detroit region also has a 70/2? Dodge demon/Challenger come to some of thier events.

I'm not saying the opportunity isn't there, and the ability for them to be competitive in stock class is definitely not there in most cases. But when prepared or mod prepped there's no reason the cars couldn't be competitive with the current ruleset.

I definitely agree with the fact our ruleset will need to progress eventually. And allow more classes in the future.
But currently if you mention Solo in any sort of rule proposal it will get shot down instantly and refused to get considered. Certain people act like Solo kicked thier puppy and close thier minds after hearing that word.

[zblorenc]

The "solid rear axle" is just silly. If there was a movement to create a class for American Muscle cars why exclude newer Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers and others? How about older Cobras that came with IRS from factory?